Ungodly thinkers have a secret weapon called confusion. By creating confusion, ungodly thinkers can fool many people. I pulled out a new weapon to counter the confusion. The new weapon is an old weapon called “flowcharting.” Whenever you want to understand something complex or confusing, give flowcharting a try.
A previous post called “The Atheist God Complex” can be found here. In that post, I answered an over-confident atheist using a flowchart. The reason I used a flowchart is that he was using a common atheistic debate tactic known as creating confusion. Flowcharts organize thoughts. In this case, the flowchart exposed the butterfly logic of the atheist. Well, the atheist wasn’t going to let it go at that. He came right back last night with the following three posts that were just as irrational as his original post. So, each of those posts needed to be answered using a flowchart. He gave every indication that he was going to be back with more, but he suddenly disappeared. Did he leave to seek counsel from his ungodly network? Did he want to limit the damage to his atheistic evangelism campaign? Who knows, but here is the continuing discussion.
Notice that Sandbuilders comments almost seem sane until we analyze them and realize that they’re just more made-up stuff and smokescreen fallacies. Enjoy.
Sandbuilder: For convenience, I will assume numbering from 1 to 10. Please use these as reference so we don’t get lost. I won’t necessarily go in order, or all in one go:
#3. You misunderstand the point. Even if we assume that a god exists, and has the necessary wisdom to authenticate his message, that doesn’t mean that any Person X who claims to have an authenticated message from God, has actually received a message from God. Your point requires that everyone has an authenticated message from God to compare the fakes to, which almost no Christian believes, or else there wouldn’t be missionary projects or apologetics.
If people can still be fooled by counterfeit “gods” than any claims of divine messages are suspect. We do not, as a species, have the capacity to truly know God from a fake, and the tremendous amount of fakes that people give 100% of their faith in are overwhelming evidence of this.
For an example: Look at all those people who buy into rapture scares. How many times do you see people selling all their belongings, expecting to be raptured, even after so many other rapture call have proven false. Virtually all claim to have received revelation (through interpreting scripture) Now, assuming that the date of the rapture can be delivered by God does not mean that any of the people claiming to have the date right, in fact do. This is not a slight on God’s power, its a comment on your own fallibility: It is far more likely that a person has been fooled into believing a god talked to them than having an actual god talk to them, just statistically.
Sandbuilder: #1 You misunderstand how axioms work. An axiom is a starting point for reasoning. Axioms do not have to be true to work, but they do need to be true for the results of your reasoning to be consistent with reality. For example, you can reason from “God is necessary for reason” as your own axiom, which you take to be true, and arrive at various conclusions. Those conclusions however are not binding to anyone that doesn’t share your axiom. And it is your axiom, not God’s, as you’re the one reasoning here, not God. You’re as bound by axiomatic thinking as everybody else.
Sandbuilder: #6 – #8 Jesus has not in fact revealed himself and his trustworthiness to every person already. He as not done so to me, so this is simply an untrue claim.
I was a member of a Christian church until I was 30. Now, you don’t have to take this as meaning I was definitely a True Follower, from your standpoint, but I did pray, and I did believe in god at the time. A message from God then would have swayed earlier me far more easily than older skeptic me.
Now, Sandbuilder has disappeared. Where he went, we don’t know, but he may return. If he does, I’ll keep you posted.